Daemon4x4 - 4x4 & Off Road Technical Board

Daemon4x4 - 4x4 & Off Road Technical Board

  • [ You are not logged in ]
  • Members online: 0
Icon - Increase font size Icon - Decrease font size Icon - Reset font size

All fields which are not marked as optional are required. They must be completed before the form can be submitted.

[ Those fields requiring attention are highlighted. ]

#108-02-2010 02:15:38

@ BigBobE & TonyN

Bob, you want a clout with the dipshit club mate. big_smile 100 degrees Fahrenheit is only approx. 35 degrees Celcius.

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/showthread.php


Tony, your fans are shite. big_smile Plus, electric setups are actually less prone to cause temp fluctuations than mechanical setups. They ain't engine speed dependant. big_smile

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/showpost.php

#208-02-2010 07:42:37

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

glad to see your back matt........and being your normal pedantic self. lol  lol

#308-02-2010 07:43:41

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

And lurking over there more than i am ........ whistle

#408-02-2010 08:26:25

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Congrats matt. Time to get the amoral back on. big_smile

#508-02-2010 09:04:23

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

Tony, your fans are shite. big_smile Plus, electric setups are actually less prone to cause temp fluctuations than mechanical setups. They ain't engine speed dependant. big_smile
Bollocks, there is a bimetallic strip adjusting clutch in the viscous fan hub, as the rad gets hotter, it lets the fan drive harder. So you get a more even temp spread, very important on a motor with overheating causing damages issues. On idle you don't need the fan anyway on a diesel so engine speed apart from exceptional circumstances so is irrelivent, and you have the extra electric fan for these times anyway.

A basic electric fan is rubbish cos its comes on at X temp, and goes off a Y temp, so the motor heats up and cools down between this two points, which if you have then close together means the fans is on lots, an causing big drag on the alt all the time, or if they are further apart, the engine has to get quite hot to get the fan on, and then cooled right down to switch it off. Which is also baddd for a motor that has issues with heads cracking.

big_smile

My fans arn't that shite, its more to do with a 2lt petrol motor trying to turn 33's at 70mph, and admittedly the rad dosn't have a lot of fins left on the core either.......

smile

#608-02-2010 13:13:28

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link gwh200 wrote:

Congrats matt. Time to get the amoral back on. big_smile
lol

Don't you just LOVE predictive text !

(Or is it the fingers again ?)


devil

#708-02-2010 14:03:13

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link TonyN wrote:

Bollocks
big_smile big_smile big_smile


there is a bimetallic strip adjusting clutch in the viscous fan hub, as the rad gets hotter, it lets the fan drive harder. So you get a more even temp spread, very important on a motor with overheating causing damages issues.
Ah, there's one born every minute. Someone's actually started a viscous fan discussion with me. I was missing my old thread. devilish devilish Technically, the bimetallic strip ain't adjusting a clutch. All it does is open two vanes which allow fluid flow. big_smile


On idle you don't need the fan anyway on a diesel so engine speed apart from exceptional circumstances so is irrelivent, and you have the extra electric fan for these times anyway.
Ironically, stood or moving slowly is actually when you see most action from the fan. That's when temperature regulation is at it's worst on the engines. You have the coolant flow at its lowest, (the coolant flow is pretty crap at idle), and the rad is getting no free flowing air through it.


A basic electric fan is rubbish cos its comes on at X temp, and goes off a Y temp, so the motor heats up and cools down between this two points, which if you have then close together means the fans is on lots, an causing big drag on the alt all the time, or if they are further apart, the engine has to get quite hot to get the fan on, and then cooled right down to switch it off. Which is also baddd for a motor that has issues with heads cracking.
I'm just quoting this bit to be an argumentative git. devilish That is actually more due to the shonky setup of some of the controllers. They have a silly operating range or suchlike. If you go for a setup where the controller has a short on/off range at roughly optimal coolant temps, it's actually quite efficient. I get to see pretty much constant 80 to 85 degree temps unless I'm making her work hard. Temp regulation is about as perfect as you can get. (Almost as perfect as I. devilish big_smile).


big_smile

My fans arn't that shite, its more to do with a 2lt petrol motor trying to turn 33's at 70mph, and admittedly the rad dosn't have a lot of fins left on the core either.......

smile
big_smile big_smile big_smile


p.s: Would anyone like an indepth explanation of the viscous fan and coolant system perhaps? devilish

#808-02-2010 14:05:52

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link Bio Hazard wrote:

And lurking over there more than i am ........ whistle
My first visit for yonks, (other than the quickest of browses in General), in all honesty. Don't think I've looked in the tech sections for well over a month now, (not much point big_smile), but just noticed two threads mentioning fans in the titles. Never could resist those. big_smile

#908-02-2010 14:06:10

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Right wait for me to get some beer and popcorn please big_smile  big_smile  big_smile

#1008-02-2010 14:13:17

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

You'll need a sleeping bag too if it gets anywhere near the length of the old thread. big_smile

#1108-02-2010 14:22:09

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

I like electric engine fans, and I like viscous fans too, but which one is best?



Hmm, there's only one way to find out.........................................

































FIGHT!!

#1208-02-2010 14:28:31

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

rofl big_smile

#1308-02-2010 14:30:10

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

Ah, there's one born every minute. Someone's actually started a viscous fan discussion with me. I was missing my old thread. devilish devilish Technically, the bimetallic strip ain't adjusting a clutch. All it does is open two vanes which allow fluid flow. big_smile
Its how it regulates the slippage of the hub reducing or increasing the speed of the fan depending on rad temps, so its a 'clutch' for the hub. (I was dumbing down for you, call it a hub-mounted, fluid-coupled device contains a hydraulic turbine using a viscous silicone fluid to transfer energy from driving element to driven element, controlled by bimetallic strip sensing the temp of the rad if you want, its your bandwidth.)


Ironically, stood or moving slowly is actually when you see most action from the fan. That's when temperature regulation is at it's worst on the engines. You have the coolant flow at its lowest, (the coolant flow is pretty crap at idle), and the rad is getting no free flowing air through it.
Don't agree, diesel are generally so efficient they don't get very hot idling, still, your 'pump' is still doing 700rpm, hardly no circulation.
On a cold day, open your bonnet, start the motor and leave it idling, and see how long it take for the 'stat to open. I normally give up and go for a drive to get the buggers hot enough to check.
Why do you see nearly every old Transit and cab with a bit of silver foil over the rad, cos they never warm up in the winter.
A diesel is at its hottest under heavy throttle for long peroids, which usually means its spinning pretty quick anyway, thats when it needs the most cooling. (extreme Off Road conditions aside, but that wasn't bought up)


I'm just quoting this bit to be an argumentative git. devilish That is actually more due to the shonky setup of some of the controllers. They have a silly operating range or suchlike. If you go for a setup where the controller has a short on/off range at roughly optimal coolant temps, it's actually quite efficient. I get to see pretty much constant 80 to 85 degree temps unless I'm making her work hard. Temp regulation is about as perfect as you can get. (Almost as perfect as I. devilish big_smile).
big_smile

not my point, most aftermarket off the shelf temp controllers are shonky, but this is what most people will end up with, so a completely relevant point.


p.s: Would anyone like an indepth explanation of the viscous fan and coolant system perhaps? devilish
Only if you like the sound of your own voice....oh, its you, go ahead then........

tongue  tongue    lol  lol  lol

#1408-02-2010 14:43:11

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link TonyN wrote:

Only if you like the sound of your own voice....oh, its you, go ahead then........

tongue  tongue    lol  lol  lol
big_smile big_smile big_smile That just made me think of another of my pointless thoughts. big_smile Why is that when one thinks, you always think in the sound of your own voice? big_smile

#1508-02-2010 14:45:48

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link TonyN wrote:

Its how it regulates the slippage of the hub reducing or increasing the speed of the fan depending on rad temps, so its a 'clutch' for the hub. (I was dumbing down for you, call it a hub-mounted, fluid-coupled device contains a hydraulic turbine using a viscous silicone fluid to transfer energy from driving element to driven element, controlled by bimetallic strip sensing the temp of the rad if you want, its your bandwidth.)
Forgot to mention. Contains a hydraulic turbine? Not that I'm nit-picking or owt. whistle big_smile

#1608-02-2010 14:48:24

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

http://daemon4x4.org/board/gallery/10/1265547340oook.jpg

#1708-02-2010 14:51:23

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Christ, those eyes are practically hypnotic. big_smile

#1808-02-2010 15:39:58

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

big_smile big_smile big_smile That just made me think of another of my pointless thoughts. big_smile Why is that when one thinks, you always think in the sound of your own voice? big_smile
PMSL, cos you wouldn't listen to anything else....

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

Forgot to mention. Contains a hydraulic turbine? Not that I'm nit-picking or owt. whistle big_smile
Poetic licence, but if being picky...

"A turbine is a rotary engine that extracts energy from a fluid or air flow and converts it into useful work"

still kinda works...the silicone fluid (hydraulic) powers the drive side of the hub to turn the fan.

tongue


EEK! What has it got in its mouth?

Last edited by TonyN (08-02-2010 15:54:19)

#1908-02-2010 15:42:03

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Looks like a grape big_smile

#2008-02-2010 16:17:13

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

Why is that when one thinks, you always think in the sound of your own voice? big_smile
That's just you Matt.  I hear lots of voices, although they're all telling me to kill people.

#2108-02-2010 18:09:53

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

big_smile big_smile big_smile

#2208-02-2010 18:12:40

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

Bob, you want a clout with the dipshit club mate. big_smile 100 degrees Fahrenheit is only approx. 35 degrees Celcius.

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/showthread.php


Tony, your fans are shite. big_smile Plus, electric setups are actually less prone to cause temp fluctuations than mechanical setups. They ain't engine speed dependant. big_smile

http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/forums/showpost.php
MATT YOU DIME BAR, I KNOW THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE AS ALBANNACH SAID, I WASH TRYING TO CLARIFY, GIVE ME SOME CREDIT, IT JUST SEEMS ODD THAT FAN ONLY KICKS IN AT WATERS BOILING POINT......

#2308-02-2010 18:15:38

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link TonyN wrote:

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

big_smile big_smile big_smile That just made me think of another of my pointless thoughts. big_smile Why is that when one thinks, you always think in the sound of your own voice? big_smile
PMSL, cos you wouldn't listen to anything else....
I'll give you that one. big_smile big_smile


Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

Forgot to mention. Contains a hydraulic turbine? Not that I'm nit-picking or owt. whistle big_smile
Poetic licence, but if being picky...

"A turbine is a rotary engine that extracts energy from a fluid or air flow and converts it into useful work"

still kinda works...the silicone fluid (hydraulic) powers the drive side of the hub to turn the fan.

tongue
Oh that's thin. big_smile That makes a spider filament look super huge. That's thinner than the bust line and hips of a catwalk model. big_smile big_smile



You've gotta love this subject. big_smile One of the last bastions of totally opinionated views and total refusal to accept the credibility of anyone elses views or opinions. devilish big_smile I love fan threads.big_smile

#2408-02-2010 18:20:42

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link BigBobE wrote:

MATT YOU DIME BAR, I KNOW THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE AS ALBANNACH SAID, I WASH TRYING TO CLARIFY, GIVE ME SOME CREDIT, IT JUST SEEMS ODD THAT FAN ONLY KICKS IN AT WATERS BOILING POINT......
Clarification number two... big_smile What's the boiling point of water under approximately one Bar of pressure? (We'll leave the antifreeze's effect out of the equation for the moment big_smile).

#2508-02-2010 18:29:36

Re: @ BigBobE & TonyN

Icon - Post link Matt wrote:

Icon - Post link BigBobE wrote:

MATT YOU DIME BAR, I KNOW THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE AS ALBANNACH SAID, I WASH TRYING TO CLARIFY, GIVE ME SOME CREDIT, IT JUST SEEMS ODD THAT FAN ONLY KICKS IN AT WATERS BOILING POINT......
Clarification number two... big_smile What's the boiling point of water under approximately one Bar of pressure? (We'll leave the antifreeze's effect out of the equation for the moment big_smile).
shush, and silence.....

i didnt take that into account....

i have been working crazy hours so not at my full mental capacity......


at least i dont have red hair!!!!
Display⁄Hide tags
Tag on Bebo Tag on BlinkList Tag on Connotea Tag on Del.icio.us Tag on Digg Tag on Diigo Tag on Facebook Tag on Google Tag on Linkedin Tag on Mister Wong Tag on MSN Live Tag on Myspace Tag on Newsvine Tag on Reddit Tag on Spurl Tag on StumbleUpon Tag on Technorati Tag on Twitter Tag on Yahoo